Porta-Nails 402P Porta-Nailer Manual Flooring Cleat Nailer

Porta-Nails 402P Porta-Nailer Manual Flooring Cleat Nailer

Ranking: 9.3 out of 10

Manufacturer: Porta-Nails
Model Number: 402
Product Code: 726205004024
Price: $270.00 -- get the latest pricing from Amazon

Features:

  • Portable nailer designed for tongue and groove hardwood flooring
  • Quickly nails 5/8-inch to 1-inch tongue and groove; ram does not return until nail is seated
  • Lightweight aluminum and strong heat-treated steel parts
  • Includes extension handle, mallet, and carry case; shoe accessory for thinner flooring available
  • Limited 1-year warranty

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Description:

Porta-Nailer With Hammer, How To Video Rugged Carry Case.

User Reviews -- Add a new review for this Product

Great Floor Nailer for DIYer

Rating: 5 out of 5
Weight: 6.0 out of 10
Created: Dec 25, 2008
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I bought the 402P Porta-Nailer and 10,000 nails. Just finished installing 740 sf. of 3/4" Red Birch hardwood. No adjustment was required on the nailer as mentioned in an earlier review - nor could I see how one would adjust this nailer.
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br /I nailed until the cartridge was empty every single time - no problem. I actually liked the ratcheting mechanism, despite reading poor reviews about this. The ratcheting mechanism allows you to take smaller swings when in a closet or close to the wall - allowing you to get one and possibly two extra rows nailed before hand nailing was necessary. Be careful when nailing close to a wall. I was a bit careless at first and took some good chunks out of the drywall when nailing close to the wall.
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br /The nailer worked flawlessly. I averaged 75 sf/1000 nails with 3 1/4" wide flooring on a 6" nailing schedule. The box of 10,000 nails did come with the corners a bit crunched, which meant broken rows of nails, but I was able to feed the broken rows into the nailer and use them all up with no problems. I did not get a single jamb in the entire 740 sf. All nails drove flush, absolutely none sticking out.
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br /I found that most nails would set with two swings. You could do it in one swing if you wanted, but I found that a weaker swing followed by one last hard swing seemed to pull the floor together a bit tighter. It was still necessary to pry some of the warped boards over with a pinch bar. This nailer won't straighten out the severely warped boards.
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br /I found it neccessary to hand nail the first and last 12" due to the geometry of this nailer. Note that I did not order the face nailer. I did all of my face nailing by hand.
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br /My only beef was that the wooden handle on the hammer was extremely rough - would rip your hand apart in no time - very poorly done in my opinion. I found it necessary to buff the handle smooth with a flap sandpaper wheel before using it. I would recommend that you spend the 10-15 minutes to do this before using the hammer. The rubber tip on the nailer came off once during the job, but was easy to pop back on.
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br /If I had to do it again, I would certainly buy this nailer and would not hesitate to recommend it to anyone. I shopped around and the nails and nailer were significantly cheaper (about 60%) of the price of purchasing them locally. This is my first hardwood floor install and I found it relatively easy to install. Note that I also used a table saw + miter saw to install the hardwood.

Great product

Rating: 5 out of 5
Weight: 5.8 out of 10
Created: Dec 25, 2008
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I borrowed my buddies 401 Porta-Nails and liked it so much I bought the newer 402. I have used a Bostitch air nailer and liked it as well. Both tools performed great. Here are the main reasons I choose the Porta-Nails:
br /1. The 402 is much lighter than an air driven nailer.
br /2. No air hose to drag around and knock your nailer and other tools over.
br /3. The nails for the Porta-Nails cost 1/4 as much as the Bostitch nails.
br /4. The Porta-Nails is made in the USA
br /5. After using the Bostitch for several hours my back just about killed me, the Porta-Nails didn't bother my back at all.
br /6. The Porta-Nails holds many more nails than the Bostitch.
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br /I lost no productivity with the Porta-Nails.
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br /Shane

Great tool

Rating: 5 out of 5
Weight: 5.8 out of 10
Created: Dec 25, 2008
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I just completed using this tool to lay hardwood throughout my entire house, and was very happy with the tools performance. When I first got the tool, it took a little bit of time to get used to how the tool works, and to adjust the ratchet/depth of drive. I suggest you take a few small pieces of floor and test it out before you start on your main project.p After about 5,000 nails, I needed to fine tune it again, but in almost 20,000 nails more, it has not needed any more adjusting. I prefer the mechanical nailers for pre-finished woods, because there is no sealer that goes on after nailing the floor down to seal gaps. With pre-finished floors, any gap that you leave is there for the life of the floor. Unless the board was warped very badly, the porta nailer was able to draw the floorboards up tight.pThe tool requires the use of the included mallet, which is very heavy, and can tire you out quickly. This isn't a tool problem, because you do need all the force the mallet delivers to drive the nail and draw the floor up tight. I'm very happy with the tool, and if I had to lay more flooring, I'd reach for it again without hesitation.br.

It cannot get any easier

Rating: 5 out of 5
Weight: 4.4 out of 10
Created: Dec 25, 2008
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I bought one of these at first for a small project of 400 Sq ft. Worked great till the hammerhead broke off in mid swing. needless to say I was ticked and called Porta-nails and they immediately shipped out a replacement hammer. I finished my job with such ease that I had to get couple more my crew. We now use 3 porta-nails 402p nailers and have had trouble free use so far. Although I liked using the Pneumatic nailers, what I found was the using this nailer with the Ratcheting mechanism made the floor installation come out with an extraordinarily tight finish. This actually allowed me to hammer some of the bows out of the flooring for a tight finish. I find with the Pneumatic nailer, it drove the nails beautifully but since it didn't require that little extra muscle, it did not drive the boards together as well. Regardless of what you choose, Porta-nails is a great product and I am extremely happy with it. We no use this for professional installations as well. 2 are set as regular angle floor nailers and 1 is set to be a face nailer. If you can afford to get 2 nailers, I would definitely suggest having once angle and 1 face nailer on hand during installation.

easy learner

Rating: 4 out of 5
Weight: 4.2 out of 10
Created: Dec 25, 2008
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Had never installed flooring before and this tool made it a breeze. Did have a jamb with nails and it was when there were less than 2 inches left. Worked really well at getting flooring in tight. Make sure to order plenty of nails (figure one every 6" on a 7" nailing or more if using shorts) as this may hold up your project.

Porta-Nailer 402P is Great!

Rating: 5 out of 5
Weight: 4.2 out of 10
Created: Dec 25, 2008
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I installed 650 sq.ft. of bamboo flooring with the Porta-Nailer 402P and it didn't jam once! Most nails set properly with two hits of the hefty Porta-Nailer hammer. There are two issues:
br /1. The bamboo/metric face-plate isn't standard on any of the Porta-Nailer kits, so you have to purchase it separately ($40-45).
br /2. The face-nailer shoe is useless on solid vertical bamboo - it splits the flooring no matter which direction you position the nail. However, it was easy to pre-drill holes for the nails and nail them manually close to walls (where the nailer doesn't fit), setting them with the Porta-Nailer nailset (also an extra purchase @ $15).
br /Overall, a great, well-designed tool; comfortable and easy to use.

GREAT TOOL

Rating: 5 out of 5
Weight: 4.2 out of 10
Created: Dec 25, 2008
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I've done about 1500 sq ft with this Porta Nailer and not had a problem. The ratchet feature is great. The machine realy pulls the boards together well. The face shoe is a good addition though it doesn't work as easily, without an edge to grab on to it is harder to keep in position. The center punch tool I found almost useless since the nails are flat and it slides right off when hit unless the nail is already below the wood surface.
br /It is a well made product and didn't jam

Good nailer

Rating: 5 out of 5
Weight: 4.2 out of 10
Created: Dec 25, 2008
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I have installed about 1000 square feet of oak 2 1/4" hardwood flooring with this nailer and it has performed perfectly.
br /***Update: It is close to 1 year later and I still love this nailer! I have had no problems and can do nothing but praise it's performance. I didn't really let the boards acclimate very long when I brought them in the house, but they are still holding stong with very tight joints.

works fine for me

Rating: 4 out of 5
Weight: 4.0 out of 10
Created: Nov 16, 2003
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The tool performs flawlessly for me. A box of 1,000 nails is said to be adequate for 200 square feet of strip flooring, but this is at a nailing schedule of ten to twelve inches, whereas flooring manufacturers suggest eight inches. I find I use about 50% more nails than suggested on the box--not a problem if you can buy them locally.

Great, well made, tool that was easy to use

Rating: 5 out of 5
Weight: 3.8 out of 10
Created: Dec 25, 2008
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This nailer is VERY well crafted, made by Americans, makes you proud to be an American just to use it, and should make the people in N.C. proud to have made it.
br /I have rented any number of manual nailers in the past, but was considering buying one this time because the floor has complex angles and the estimated length of time for this installation was long enough that the rental fee would be more than the cost of buying it.
br /Not having used a pneumatic nailer, I asked around and was warned against getting one because they are too quick, and there is no allowance for mistakes. Since I was nailing a hardwood floor over radiant heat tubes, I couldn't afford to have ANY mistakes. My experiences with regular pneumatic nailers is that it is VERY easy to accidentally activate the nailer, putting a nail in a place that you didn't want (lots of accidents with these things). With this ratcheting nailer, just a gentle tap starts the nail, and if you have second thoughts you can easily pull the nail and start over.
br /I'd certainly recommend this product, with one caveat - don't buy your nails online. I bought one box along with the nailer, and aside from the fact that it took a week longer to get them in the mail, their price was 50% higher than the same nails at Lowe's and Home Depot and that was BEFORE shipping.

Great floor nailer

Rating: 5 out of 5
Weight: 3.4 out of 10
Created: Dec 25, 2008
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I did a lot of research on floor nailers before deciding to go with this one. I didn't know whether to get a pneumatic or manual, ease of use vs. good looking finish. I'm very happy with the manual one. Besides being less than half the price, I feel like I am in control of whether or not the boards are going to be tight. The hammer is very heavy ( I don't think an average woman could use it ) which really drives even the most stubborn boards together as it drives the nail. Things to know. . .
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br /1. If you have a pneumatic finish nailer use it to do the face nailing, don't waste your money on the face nailer.
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br /2. When you start getting close to the wall, use the finish nailer to angle nails into the tongue, no need to put face nails in the last 6-8 rows.
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br /3. Don't buy the nail set, it doesn't work at all. (If the massive hammer impacting the mechanism which drives nail with perfect contact hasen't set it all the way. . .you're not going to.)
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br /4. If the nail is not perfectly flush, no big deal. Usually when the next row is set, you can use the rubber side of the hammer to drive the boards together before nailing, and the nail will work itself into the wood of the next board.
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br /I had never installed hardwood floors before, and am by no means a contractor / been doing house work all my life. I am self tought and did a lot of research, and anyone who tells you to hire a professional because it's too difficult to do is either lazy, or doesn't know what they're talking about.

I had high hopes...

Rating: 2 out of 5
Weight: 3.2 out of 10
Created: Dec 25, 2008
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After reading all of the reviews on Amazon, I was hoping that this product would be a cost-effective solution to renting a pneumatic nailer/stapler. It functioned as advertised for about 700 nails or so, but then refused to drive them all the way into the wood without ratcheting back prematurely. I tried all manners of cleaning, etc. described in the manual (which isn't going to win any technical writing awards, by the way). I ended up having to rent a Bostitch 2" Stapler anyway, as I was on vacation and needed to finish the floor. I used this model Bostitch MIIIFS 1-1/2-Inch to 2-Inch Pneumatic Floor Stapler which functioned flawlessly and finished up the majority of my floor. Amazon's return policy was awesome - since the product was defective, I printed out a prepaid return shipping label, and had the UPS store pack it all up (nails, nail gun, setting tool) since it was pretty heavy (58lbs) and hard to pack. I received an email that my refund had been processed about 1-2 days after the package was received at the return center, and am expecting the money in my account any day. Way to go Amazon!

Works great, cheap to buy

Rating: 4 out of 5
Weight: 3.2 out of 10
Created: Dec 25, 2008
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Did 500 square feet of hardwood bamboo flooring. Wasn't going to rent a nailer as outlets wanted 40-50 bucks a day (!) and since I can only do the jobs on my free time, it would take a week at least. Porta nailer is cheap and works great. Love how it wont release until nail is fully set. Takes a little practice to figure out the hammering nuances -- just do that on a piece of scrap material first, you'll then master how to drive the nail in efficiently (hint: Don't pound down so hard like you're at a circus game, get the pounding down to a nice controllable rhythm). When that's done, it's easy sailing as far as hammering in the wood. Your efforts are then transfered to the real issues -- planning, measuring, and cutting the planks to size.
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br /Don't bother with the face nail adapter, it doesn't work very well as it tends to split the wood and/or doesn't go in cleanly.
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Just a few problems

Rating: 4 out of 5
Weight: 3.2 out of 10
Created: Dec 25, 2008
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I've used it for 5,000 nails, half a case with very few problems. The manual is more work thatn the pneumatic nailers but it works great for pulling curved boards together.
br /1)The nail strips come apart easily and if you have many pieces in the magazine they can stick. Just pull back the tension bar and let it pop back.
br /2)Have had nails get jammed but it includes the allen wrenches to get it apart.
br /3)There is a lip on the front of the standard shoe that sticks down just far enough to fool you into having the nailer a inch back which puts a nail into the middle of the strip :(
br /4)Take a picture of the case to help remember how everything boes back in.

Porta Nailer

Rating: 5 out of 5
Weight: 3.2 out of 10
Created: Dec 25, 2008
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This is a great nailer. I put down 600 sq. ft. of Brazilian Cherry flooring with ease. Most nails took only two or three moderate blows. My floor came out tight and did not scratch. The flooring was prefinished, so I was nervous about doing it myself. The price is well worth it compared to the pnuematic nailers, and your floor will be tighter.
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br /I used a screw driver to pull the boards together as I nailed them. Don't make the mistake of just nailing the boards where they come together, especially on the longer boards which tend to warp more. Pull and nail. I only had one jam, and the customer rep walked me through removing the face plate and clearing the jam. The jam was my fault as I got tired and slipped off when I got near one wall. If some of the boards don't pull together tightly, make sure to tap down some of the previously driven nails by turning the screw driver sideways on the tongue and gently tapping it with a hammer.

Great tool!

Rating: 5 out of 5
Weight: 3.2 out of 10
Created: Dec 25, 2008
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I used the Porta-Nailer 402 to install 400 square feet of 3/4 inch oak hardwood flooring and it worked flawlessly. I don't recall it jamming once. I used two or three mallet blows to sink the nail to the proper depth. The plunger returns only after nail is seated.

Competent Flooring Nailer

Rating: 4 out of 5
Weight: 3.0 out of 10
Created: Oct 5, 2008
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I used this hammer to lay 400 sqft of 2-1/4" TG oak flooring. I had no problems with the tool while blind nailing. The finished floor is nice and tight, no gaps. HOWEVER... The face nailing shoe doesn't really work, because the nailer bounces off the nail after the first blow. I recommend using a pneumatic finishing nailer instead for face nailing. The plastic case is really flimsy and won't last a week.

Definitely worth the money

Rating: 5 out of 5
Weight: 3.0 out of 10
Created: Dec 25, 2008
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This is a nice, basic manual nailer. The real trick to being successful with it is to make sure it's seated well against the board and doesn't move when struck. If it does move, make sure it's over the partially seated nail and that the ram hasn't reset and put another nail in firing position. I would also avoid going below about 4 glued-together nails in a strip. Using these methods, I had very few problems with jamming.

A well made product Made in the USA.

Rating: 5 out of 5
Weight: 3.0 out of 10
Created: Dec 25, 2008
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Worked very well. I did about 900 square feet with no problems. I only had one nail jam, not too much trouble to take it apart. This is a tough tool and worth the money. It is nice to see American made tools.

Great tool

Rating: 5 out of 5
Weight: 3.0 out of 10
Created: Dec 25, 2008
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I have installed 750 sq feet of oak flooring with my Porta-Nailer with no problems what so ever. Tool is easy to use and nails are easy to load. I have not had any problems with nails jamming. It does require two to three hits with the mallet to set the nail into the wood. You really have to hit it very hard to set the nail with one hit and I found it easier to do it with two to three. The nails are easy to find at the big box home improvement stores. Great tool and good price.

Great so far!

Rating: 5 out of 5
Weight: 3.0 out of 10
Created: Dec 25, 2008
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My friend and I are in the process of using the Porta-Nailer to install 3/4" Kempas hardwood flooring in my home and it works great. It make the job so much easier and accurate than having to hand nail and much it was much less expensive than buying a pneumatic nailer.
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Working great for me

Rating: 5 out of 5
Weight: 3.0 out of 10
Created: Dec 25, 2008
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I bought this nailer to install about 1700 square feet of Brazilian cherry flooring. I'm about half way through the job and the nailer has performed flawlessly. I really only had 1 misfire and thats because I let the nailer slip while hammering. The ratchet ram is a nice feature. I've used the one hit nailers before and this is much easier to work with. It usually takes 2 hits to drive the nails home, maybe 3 when you start to get tired. I've actually found that lighter hits seem to work better and you get less splitting. All in all, its a great product, made in the USA, and I would highly recommend it.

It does what it says: easily.

Rating: 5 out of 5
Weight: 3.0 out of 10
Created: Dec 25, 2008
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I am a do it yourself type of person. Although this is a manual-nailer, it comes with a weighted hammer, that has a large head that makes it impossible to miss. You get into a type of rhythm that allows you to drive the nails as quickly as you can move the nailer to the next spot. Therefore, I would say that this is almost as fast as a power-driven nailer. Additionally, if you let the weight of the hammer drive the nails, you will find that there is little effort other than keeping the heavy hammer on target. Net/Net: definitely worth the price, and I did over 500 square feet of flooring, and did not have a single jam, and only made on error (which was my fault; I did not have the nailer on the right spot). Do NOT pay the money for an automatic nailer. Also, I would imagine that the resale value for a lightly used hammer is high, so you could use it, then resell it (to another "do it yourselfer"). I would highly recommend this product. It is simple, efficient, and....it does what it says.

Does what it's supposed to do!

Rating: 5 out of 5
Weight: 3.0 out of 10
Created: Dec 25, 2008
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This tool works just as you would expect.
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br /I've used it to put down 500 square feet of 3/4" red oak flooring so far, and have not had any problem: no jams.
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br /The only negative I have is really mostly a user error. I've driven 3 nails into the face of the floor instead of the tongue -- it's easy to do unless you pay close attention to where you line up the tool before you hit it.
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great nailer

Rating: 5 out of 5
Weight: 3.0 out of 10
Created: Dec 25, 2008
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This item makes flooring easy. Love the racheting action that insures nails go completly flush before you move on. Highly recommend

Good Buy!

Rating: 5 out of 5
Weight: 3.0 out of 10
Created: Dec 25, 2008
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I did a lot of research and purchased the Porta-Nailer 402P. The tool works flawlessly. It only took a couple nails to get the hang of using it. Never jammed once and I always waited until completely out of nails before refilling (the factory says to fill when down to the last two inches of fasteners). I even forgot to put the pusher spring back on and it still fed without a problem. When my thousand feet of oak are down, I will sell on E-Bay.

For the do it yourselfer or the Pro.

Rating: 5 out of 5
Weight: 3.0 out of 10
Created: Dec 25, 2008
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After considerring an air driven floor nailer, I went the simple route to the manual Porta-Nials 402P Porta Nailer. For the price and ease of portability this nailer is great. I had no jams and the porta nails where sunk perfect every time. The sturdy construction combined with just the right weight and extention handle really made the work easy. This is a great tool and I highly recommend the use of this tool with the porta nails. I used this tool to lay down 3/4" tongue and groove red oak. Two stikes of the mallot does the job.
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br /I also recommend the face nailer accessory for starting boads.
br /Don't use brads to nail down floors, there is no real holding power.

A nice tool!

Rating: 5 out of 5
Weight: 3.0 out of 10
Created: Dec 25, 2008
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The equipment works great but be careful with the instructions. The manual and DVD suggest initial use of the nailer after three couses. More like 5 for 2-1/4 strips and a full clip of nails.

A great tool for installing real wood floors

Rating: 5 out of 5
Weight: 3.0 out of 10
Created: Dec 25, 2008
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I have an upstairs office that I wanted to convert from carpet to a hardwood floor. I researched and found the Porta-Nailer highly recommended. So, I ordered it and installed a 1,400 square foot floor. The nailer worked excellently and operated beyond my expectations. As a result I am installing the same flooring in two other rooms.

Outstanding tool

Rating: 5 out of 5
Weight: 3.0 out of 10
Created: Dec 25, 2008
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From the time you open this tool's case you will be impressed. The case has room enough for the face nailer shoe attachment and a couple of boxes of cleats. This American-made product is professionally well constructed. Quality craftmanship and efficiency of design are just two of the great advantages of this nailer over many other options.
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br /Renting a pneumatic setup will cost you more that purchasing this nailer, if you rent for the amount of time you would really need. Think about it...if you are a do-it-yourself person, do you have the experience to finish the job in a day? A week? Two weeks? Purchase this nailer and you can take your time. You can move furniture around instead of emptying rooms. You can work on evenings and weekends instead of wasting precious vacation time. So unless you are experienced and/or have most of the pneumatic setup already in place, consider purchasing this nailer.
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br /This nailer is easy to handle, and not as difficult to activate as you might think. I consistently grab the mallet toward the head (I prefer not to use gloves), and find that I can drive a cleat much more easily than swinging the entire mallet. This close-in stance also gives me greater control so that I don't end up with a wild upswing that hits furniture and walls.
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br /This nailer is also quite safe to use compared with pneumatics. A pneumatic nailer must be handled as a loaded weapon that, given the right circumstances, can nail your shoe to the floor, or worse. I would be afraid to use such a tool when I grow tired, or around children. This manual nailer, on the other hand, is impossible to activate accidentally, and has no dangerous springs accessible that can harm anyone. I feel comfortable leaving the nailer loaded--there is absolutely no wasted prep time!
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br /Read the instructions carefully. Little things such as placing your foot on the rear of the nailer shoe, are important. In fact, the face nailer shoe attachment, which has received a lot of bad marks, has actually worked well for me once I learned how to lean over the nailer from the side and strike straight down on it; I have not had an unintentional ding yet, although I stop nailing immediately if I feel the nailer move. I then set the cleat into the flooring using a 8d nail set. I own the cleat set, but have found it unnecessary; a regular 8d nail set works much better for me.
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br /Never put a single cleat in the nailer, although I have often driven cleats until the nailer is empty without problems. Loading a single cleat will indeed jam the nailer. Hitting a subfloor nail would most likely jam the nailer too, but I have never hit one despite re-nailing the subfloor with flooring nails. The one jam I did experience (due to that single-cleat issue) I cleared quickly by following the instructions.
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br /Yes, I highly recommend this nailer for any size job, even an 800 square-foot job such as mine. This tool has quickly earned respect and pride, right up there with my chisels and planes.

Great item

Rating: 5 out of 5
Weight: 3.0 out of 10
Created: May 22, 2008
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We are remodling an old farm house, and have already installed over 900 sq. ft. of 3/4" solid oak flooring with this nailer and we still have more to go.

GREAT VALUE

Rating: 4 out of 5
Weight: 2.8 out of 10
Created: Dec 25, 2008
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This is a great nailer. I would suggest practicing first. The video with the girl making it look so simple, well go figure. Anytime they show a female doing something in a demo it's a bit harder to get used than it looks. So easy a caveman can do it. Once you get used to it the tool works great and is a good tool for the money. I would suggest making a jig out of some scrap hardwood to hold in place while face nailing. Makes it so much easier.

Serious design flaw!

Rating: 1 out of 5
Weight: 2.4 out of 10
Created: Dec 25, 2008
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I have owned this nailer for a few years and used it for about 2500ft/sq of solid flooring. If the cleat hits a subfloor screw, it will jam. That makes sense but the problem is it bends the plate, causing it to jam more frequently whenever it hits some resistance, e.g., a floor joist knot, hardened subfloor glue, and sometimes no reason at all.
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br /This nailer is a solid built tool, but the design makes it the most frustrating and unusable tool I have ever owned (and I have lots of tools). I recommend a high quality Bostitch or other American Brand for the pros or a Chinese POS for the homeowner, over this tool.

There's a reason it's cheap

Rating: 1 out of 5
Weight: 2.0 out of 10
Created: Dec 25, 2008
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I had the opportunity to use both this tool and the Bostitch manual floor nailer during a recent job. Both tools were new, both were solidly constructed and of good quality. The Bostich proved far superior to the Porta Nailer due primarily to the ratcheting feature on the Porta Nailer. This does not fuction well and is a poor design. The Porta nailer would leave cleats half driven or fail to relase the cleat from the nailer after the cleat was fully driven. On the Porta Nailer side of the job we spent alot of time on our knees with a nail set trying to set cleats. We were forced to pull up a few planks becasue the cleats could not be set or removed. Eventually it was faster to just use the Bostich than waste man hours with the Porta Nailer. If they remove the ratchet ram feature this would be a good tool, with it is flawed and not recommeded.

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WEN
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